Sunday, 15 January 2012

That Interview.......

The most anticipated podcast since William Lane Craig vs. The Chair

Had a listen last night and I hope I was open minded, because I have enjoyed Mark’s sermons and I love Justin’s show.  It was nice to be exposed to a realer side of Justin when the tables turned because obviously on his show he shows complete impartiality.
Justin asked if he could talk about more than just the book, which Mark said he was happy with, so he can’t really then complain that parts of his ministry were discussed.  Justin told Grace to be free to chip in at any time, she only responded once at Justin’s invitation.  Mark has said he found Justin to be disrespectful towards Grace, but I actually feel it was Mark who was disrespectful towards her.  My husband and I in no way have a marriage we could write a guidance book about, but if we had written a book together and were being asked about it, I would expect him to invite me into the conversation or mention my input and lead me into talking about it. Having said that I would feel I could have a say if it needed it without invitation!  So I concluded from that, Grace is either uber shy, or uber submissive suffering from ‘I will not speak until spoken to’ little woman syndrome.
Marks problem with men and make no mistake he thinks this is ALL men, not some who suffer from this, every single man is inherently lazy, sex-crazed, un-committed etc. and that is why only a macho Pastor like him can get through to them, they simply will not engage in a church that isn’t led by an action man.  He then contradicts himself though by saying that the men in Seattle are Arty types, business men, upper city men etc. So I was unsure why he was concerned with the possible congregations outside his own church, because obviously under his guidance there are no knuckle draggers in his church.
Considering the interview primarily was for an article on the book, I do think Justin didn’t give as much time to that as he could’ve, but he was almost led away from the subject of marriage by Marks attack on men, which obviously is going to lead on to further questioning.
I also think Justin could’ve been a bit more positive with his answers to Mark at the end, I know it must’ve been pretty intimidating suddenly having the shoe put on the other foot, but I assume he knows what he believes and he did come across a bit uncomfortably in his answers.
So, will I read the book? No, for me personally I think it would do more harm than good, but if anyone else wants to, go for it!
Will I listen to Pastor Mark’s sermons again? Yes, I can’t ignore the fact I have probably been blessed by them more than I have been outraged.
Will I listen to Justin’s unbelievable radio show anymore? No………….Joking I am, I love that show!!!!!


  1. Hi Naomi,
    Here's my thoughts on some of your comments:

    'but I actually feel it was Mark who was disrespectful towards her.'
    Or perhaps, as with most couples, there is one who does most of the talking by default, and that the other is happy to say less unless needed. I think your assessment of Grace could have been more graceful.

    'every single man is inherently lazy, sex-crazed, un-committed etc'
    If by that Mark thinks that all men are sinners, then he is spot on. What's the problem?

    'only a macho Pastor like him can get through to them'
    That isn't his position, because he told Justin that he wasn't telling the Brits what to do, only that what they are doing wasn't working. I think he has at least half a point there, but I wouldn't say that it is only the Brits that have that problem.

    'I also think Justin could’ve been a bit more positive with his answers to Mark at the end'
    But Justin is Justin, and that's the way we love him. He doesn't need to change his ways just to suit Mark. That would be inconsistent. I actually thought that Justin was quite manly in his own way for standing up to Mark--possibly making Mark even more annoyed. I mean, just how many people would stand up to Mark to his face? With his power and influence, the temptation to back down to his face would be pretty high. But there was Justin, hammering away with all the hard questions.
    Personally, I really appreciated the discussion, although the intensity of it had me squirming in my seat. I thought there were some points there that really needed airing. Masculinity within Christianity is in crisis, but I'm not sure that Mark has all the answers.

    'I love that show'
    Me too!

  2. Hi Matthew, thanks for your comments.

    If Grace is naturally untalkative, Mark needn't have complained she was overlooked.

    I have known a few quiet, hard working, soft hearted men to be sinners too.......and women, and children, so maybe he needs to broaden his target audience!

    Mark has a world-wide platform, and I have benefited greatly from lots of his sermon podcasts, but he has a serious case of 'foot in mouth' disease!

  3. Currently listening to the interview and the 1 comment I'd make about Grace not talking is that neither Justin nor Mark ask Grace her view on a particular question. Personally, if I'd been the interviewer, I'd have asked Grace's view on the impact of porn on young women and possibly also about the various things that their book talks about being "allowed" to try and get the female perspective on this, rather than what is obviously a male-only perspective that we get from it.

    Also, as someone who has never listened to Mark Driscoll's talks, I am very wary about listening in the future because anyone who says that if something is not explicitly prohibited in the Bible then it's ok is, in my book, on very shaky ground!

    1. HI, yes, agree you want a bit more than just, well the Bible doesn't say no so.....

      I still believe Grace is firmly under 'speak until spoken to by Mark' rule! I pretty sure any other joint auther would have naturally joined in.

      Thanks for comment, appreciate it.

  4. Hi!

    First of all, love the passion with which you write and thanks for allowing comments on your blog :)

    It's an interesting interview and I have always enjoyed Pastor Mark's sermons. Like every preacher there are thing I agree with and things I don't, based upon my discernment, learning and understanding of the bible.

    It probably says more about me that whilst listening to the interview, I found myself agreeing with some of what Pastor Mark was saying. I KNOW there are good preachers and men of God in the UK, I KNOW that to not be able to name a well known young preacher that everyone will know in the UK is not problematic but, it IS symptomatic of the problem.

    If I sit back at look at the church in the UK yeah sure, we do a lot of good stuff but looking at my response to some of what Pastor Mark said (I squirmed because I could see his point of view and in some cases agreed with it) and more pointedly, Justin's responses to being questioned (having agreed to it), I could see a stark problem with the church in the UK.

    We are afraid to offend, we always strive for compromise, sometimes at the expense of our own faith. We become liberal in our theology and perhaps focus on things that really don't matter in relation to spreading the Gospel.

    Pastor Mark may have over-generalised in his comment about cowards but, He was expressing a sentiment which I suspect a LOT of people (Christians and non-christians alike) here in the UK have (and I am only expressing my opinion) - that the church here has become overly liberal, wooly and soft but I would say, NOT feminised.

    There, I said it.

    Anyway, thank you again for allowing comments and keep writing! Love it!

    God bless.

    1. Thank you Shaun for your comments! I suppose I don't really get why the Bible teacher has to be well known across the UK, a large platform as we have seen can be problematic if you don't think before you speak!