Thursday, 24 January 2013

Adam And Eve Or Adam And Steve?

I have listened to the latest 'it's ok to be a gay Christian' conversations with Steve Chalke, hosted both times by the fabulous Justin Brierly! Steve has also written for Christianity Magazine on his affirmation of same sex monogamous long term relationships.

One of Chalkes arguments is that we have moved on from the position in the Bible that women must be silent and not take part in church services, so we should now move on and accept that when the bible talks of relationships it refers to both gay and straight. But there are also positive accounts in the Bible of women who are prophets and teachers and highly regarded, so that doesn't really stack up with  moving on to accept homosexuality, which is always looked at negatively in the Bible.

So lets look at a subject in the Bible which similarly to homosexuality is never portrayed positively.......say 'gluttony'.  I know many many more fat Christians than gay ones, they are afforded the same rights within the church as the Christians with the perfect BMI.........

I have to say four or five years ago my views were very black and white, there was little room for movement, or even listening with an open mind in some cases. I would very much have said 'you cannot be a Christian and be gay'. I completely believe now that is entirely wrong! The only thing that prevents you from being a Christian is rejecting Christ. Some people may interpret being gay as having rejected Christ because it goes against what he taught.  

But that is not the case, Jesus never mentions homosexuality; he mentions a lot about loving each other and helping the poor and needy and not judging each other, not holding grudges, not to worry, how to pray, being wise and thoughtful, not to be greedy or jealous, not to be proud or boastful, to stay faithful in marriage..........are you keeping up? Anyone ready to throw a stone yet? John 8:7

So maybe if Jesus didn't see the need to teach specifically about it, maybe we don't need to be coming out and stamping our position on it? Of course within our churches we need to be able to hear the small percentage of people who are attracted to the same sex and counsel them accordingly - that does not mean counsel them into straightness, that means counsel them into accepting who they are and what that now means for their life, and that they are loved by God and a most precious and unique individual who is worthy of the same respect as anyone else......and that goes for fat people too! 


  1. Whilst I can see where you are coming from, your conclusion appears to somewhat vague.
    Are you saying that we should be preaching that God's plan regarding sexuality is as the Law of Moses and Paul teaches or that so long as you are in relationship with Jesus you can do whatever you like?

  2. I'm saying, as Christians, rather than concentrate on the issue of sexual persuasion, we should be concentrating on living Christ-like lives ie helping the poor and sick and needy, showing love to our neighbours and enemies. If you happen to be gay it is for you to decide, as it is with a straight person, whether or not you choose to be celibate or whether you are going to remain a virgin until you find the one life-long partner you wish to spend the rest of your life with. As much as I can see the Bible is against homosexuality, I can't bring myself to judge someone based on their sexuality.
    Thanks for your input!

  3. We are not just to 'love' but to speak truth in love. I think this passage better defines our mission Ephesians 4:11-25. And don't forget that people who hearJohn 8:7 also need to hear John 8:11.

  4. I agree, but my truth to a homosexual person wouldn't be 'you're a sinner and can't be a Christian'. It would be 'God loves you'.
    As for John 8, the woman had committed adultery, wrong in any relationship. If we are comfortable with telling a gay person to stop being gay because it is a sin I think we should also tell obese people to eat less because greed is a sin! I'm not prepared to do either!

  5. God loves everybody, not matter what view they have or what sin they perpetuate. "God loves you" is not the Gospel message but the heart behind the message John 3:16. The first thing Jesus says in the Gospel is 'Repent' Mark 1:15. He eats with sinners but tells them to 'sin no more' John 8:11. It is becaise he loves them that he does not want them simply to continue in their wrong ways, whether that be gluttony or homosexual relationships or whatever. We are work in progress, none of us perfected yet. 'Gay' in itself is not a sin, but it may be that within that label there is some stuff God wants to work through. Attractions (and this goes for hetrosexial too) can be obsessive - just like gluttony! Why would a Christian avoid saying that greed is a sin? Obviously it depends on how it is said - you want to build people up, not knock them down (back to Epehesians 4).

  6. Again, I agree with you, being gay is not a sin, I do however know of many Christian folk and was brought up within a church that would not have accepted someone being gay, which I think is definately a position as Christians we need to move away from.